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22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

Not good. I thought NS does not defrag a SSD? I thought it only issued the "optimize" command just like Windows natively does when its set to do it weekly? I was upgrading another machine that had been sitting for about a month. Once everything was upgraded. It said performance needed fixing. I seen defrag come up and waited for about a minute. It was actually defragging my ssd! I seen it with my own eyes.

I then stopped it and disabled. Opened WIndows for disks and seen it STILL doing it! I stopped it and hit optimize. It was done in seconds.

Antworten

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Re: 22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

That's odd because I thought Windows itself rejected defragging SSD's

I'd be interested to know the brand and model of SSD since I'm planning to put one into my desktop when I do some other upgrading on it.

I wonder if it has any special characteristics that caused it not to be recognized as a SSD -- there are some new technologies arriving including an INTEL one mysteriously called Vertical that I though meant you had to mount the drive that way! But it refers to how the "chips" are stacked.

I'm flagging this for attention.

Hugh
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Re: 22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

Normally in Windows 8.1 when you run Windows defrag a SSD just does a TRIM command.

However there is a time when a SSD does need to be defraged. I read an article from MS storage guru that when an SSD becomes fragmented it stores the locations in metadata and when the metadata gets full then the SSD will be defraged to clear room in that database.

Jim

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Re: 22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

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Re: 22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

That's the article I was talking about. On my SSD systems I let Windows do its thing but I turn it off in Norton.

Jim

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Re: 22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

That's correct @PhoneMan,

In Windows 7, Disk Optimization is not compatible with SSD drives. However in Windows 8, a general optimization is carried out by the Defragment and Optimize Tool to handle various kinds of hard drives, including SSDs.

Microsoft has introduced the Defragment and Optimize Tool in Windows 8, which also includes the Storage Optimizer. In SSDs, the Storage Optimizer is responsible for carrying out disk optimization and disk cleanup during idle time on a periodical basis. This process is different from the traditional defragmentation procedure and is safe for SSDs.

Please refer Norton Support article : Disk Optimization defragments SSD drive on my Windows 8 computer.

Thanks,
Sunil G A
Norton Forums Administrator
Symantec Corporation

Sunil_GA | Norton Forums Administrator | Symantec Corporation
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Re: 22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

Shows also we really do need to ask what version of Windows and of the Norton Product .... and get an answer when we are trying to help people!

Hugh
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Re: 22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

Idle time optimizer is one of the features I turn off upon installation of Norton Security.

I also disable optimization in Windows itself under Windows Services. So defrag doesn't work. If I try to open Defrag it does nothing.

Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Norton Security v.22.17.x
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Re: 22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

I feel relieved. Great info all. Thanks! I am on Windows 8.1 64 bit. I had for got to mention that in my OP.

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Re: 22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

This quote from the end of that article.

"Yes, your SSD's file system sometimes needs a kind of defragmentation and that's handled by Windows, monthly by default, when appropriate. The intent is to maximize performance and a long life. If you disable defragmentation completely, you are taking a risk that your filesystem metadata could reach maximum fragmentation and get you potentially in trouble."

So who's right, and who's wrong ?

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/TheRealAndCompleteStoryDoesWindowsDefragme...

Windows 10 Home X 64 Norton Security Premium Current
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Re: 22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

F4E

So who's right, and who's wrong ?

Not sure whether you are asking Gayathri or PhoneMan ...?

The general answer seems to be that you should not with WIndows 7 but that 8.1Update (or later) is OK.

BTW Windows Secrets has an interesting article today reminding us that you can't wipe a SSD by traditional methods .... (unless you include the hammer which I know some people regard as the only ultra safe way on traditional disks.

Best techniques for the safe disposal of drives

Hugh
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Re: 22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

Hi, Hugh.  It was just a general question re whether defragging is beneficial or not. People still seem divided.

I defrag my normal hard drive once a week. Who knows if it makes a difference !

I have one pc with a normal drive, and one with an SSD. Both Windows 7.

Windows 10 Home X 64 Norton Security Premium Current
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Re: 22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

I think there isn't an answer to  Who's Right, Who's Wrong ?

But from what John T, who designed modern HHD's for nearly all the major manufacturers, it does little good on modern HHDs and with NTFS.

The recent generations of HHDs have their architecture on the disk arranged so that it is not hugely affected by where bits of files are located, and even if the physical side of the drive was a factor it is largely overridden by the now enormous caches like 32GB just for RAM cache (my first hard drive in my Thinkpad T701C was 340 MB !)

The NTFS file system itself breaks up files into bits for efficient management .....

In XP days life was different .....

And now from Windows 8.1U on (I must have a look and see if my 10 mentions defragging) the defrag system has changed, like the rest of Windows, and so some sort of defrag is done on SSD's. BUT I don't know what the SSD/chip makers have to say on this .... yet.

Hugh
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Re: 22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

....um, and regarding Solid State Hybrid Drive (SSHD)?

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Re: 22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

In Windows 8 and 10 it has the same Defragment and Optimize Drives program.

If you tell it to Optimize a SSD it runs the Trim command.

I have mine set to Monthly.

Jim

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Re: 22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

bjm_:

....um, and regarding Solid State Hybrid Drive (SSHD)?

Do you have one? I nearly bought one but by the time I decided the Amazon price had gone up again so I got a pure SSD ....

Hopefully it would do what each needs -- practically maybe Microsoft doesn't know about them! 

Hugh
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Re: 22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

Hi, Hugh. I guess it depends on the definition of *modern* hard drives.

The one on my desktop is 5 years old. Does that qualify ?  

Windows 10 Home X 64 Norton Security Premium Current
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Re: 22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

Windows 10 Home X 64 Norton Security Premium Current
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Re: 22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

F4E:

Hi, Hugh. I guess it depends on the definition of *modern* hard drives.

The one on my desktop is 5 years old. Does that qualify ?  

Probably ....  He retired 2 - 3 years ago I think it was. Part that I remember is that when they stopped parking the heads outside the disk area it no longer where a track was located; time to access depended on where the head was previously which is no longer nearest the outside track. And of course the very large caches.

Hugh
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Re: 22.5.0.124 was defragging my SSD!!!!!!!!!

It can be valid data but irrelevant to most of us:

New research suggests that newer solid-state hard drives, which are faster and offer better performance, are vulnerable to an inherent flaw -- they lose data when they're left dormant in storage for periods of time where the temperature isn't properly regulated.

[ ... ]

Don't immediately freak out, though. It depends entirely on the temperature, but also the type of drive you're using. Most consumer solid-state drives, such as those in high-end performance desktops and certain notebooks (including Apple MacBooks), do not suffer as much. They are designed to retain data for about two years in storage under the right temperature.

But enterprise solid-state drives pose the biggest risk to data loss, because the retention period drops considerably

Hugh

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