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Kudos1 Stats

Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

I just recently purchased a brand new Alienware Area 51 desktop computer which was delivered April 14. After installing Norton Core Security and subsequent patches, anytime I run LiveUpdate, the computer hangs at the last update, and the only option is to hard-shutdown the computer by keeping the power button pressed. I also worked with someone from the Norton Core team, and they were able to help me, but only temporarily. A couple of hours later, the next set of LiveUpdate updates brought the problem back again.

Here are the sequence of events:

  • (4/14) First startup of desktop and setting up login
  • (4/14) Windows and Alienware updates
  • (4/14-4/15) Installing the following software - Norton Core Security
  • (4/15) Installed MS Office, Firefox, Chrome, WinRAR, HP Printer, VLC Player
  • (4/15) When I started it up next day, Norton LiveUpdate caused it to hang (screen and everything completely frozen)
  • (4/15) Let it run for over 1 hour, still frozen
  • (4/15) Hard-shutdown of computer, startup and tried LiveUpdate again; kept trying, computer hung every time (tried between 10-15 times)
  • (4/15) Uninstalled Norton Core Security
  • (4/15) Computer worked fine when Norton Security was not installed
  • (4/15) Reinstalled Norton Computer Security - installation and patches successful
  • (4/15) LiveUpdate caused computer to hang again
  • (4/16) Same problems next day; did a complete RESET of the computer
  • (4/16) Computer worked fine
  • (4/16) Installed MS Office, computer worked fine
  • (4/16) Installed Norton Security Plus - installation successful
  • (4/16) LiveUpdate caused computer to hang again
  • (4/16) Disabled "Automatic LiveUpdate" to stop the process from inadvertently causing computer to hang
  • (4/16) Computer worked fine
  • (4/16) Contacted Norton Support, worked with Norton Core support (Case# xxxxxxxx ) [private information removed by Admin]
  • (4/16) Norton Support did the following: uninstalled, deleted all common program files, reinstalled - LiveUpdate still causing problems
  • (4/16) Norton Support did the following: Removed Norton using the removal tool (RnR), then reinstalled using the latest Norton Security Backup (NSBU)
  • (4/16) Installation was successful and LiveUpdates were successful and didn't cause computer to hang or crash
  • (4/16) A couple of hours later, new LiveUpdate started causing the computer to hang again; it seems like a final Auto-Protect setting in the LiveUpdate or something is causing this? Can't say for sure.
  • (4/17) Today, I have disabled the "Automatic LiveUpdate" and the computer has been running for over an hour without hanging or crashing

I'm really desperate now - it seems not having Norton Core software is the only surefire way to keep my computer running. Even Norton Core support were not able to help.

Labels: Windows 10

Replies

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Hello Everybody. Windows 10, all versions, do you have "fast startup" enabled or disabled in your power settings?

Cheers

"From DOS to Windows10 what a journey it has been" / MS Certified Professional / Windows 10 Home / Professional x 64 version 1903 / build 18362.239 / N360 Deluxe 22.17.3.50 / Norton Core v.282 on Android 2.00
Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

I have "fast startup" enabled.

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Disable it and reboot. Recheck your issue. Having this enabled has caused issues with certain machines.

Cheers

"From DOS to Windows10 what a journey it has been" / MS Certified Professional / Windows 10 Home / Professional x 64 version 1903 / build 18362.239 / N360 Deluxe 22.17.3.50 / Norton Core v.282 on Android 2.00
Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

I disabled "fast startup" and rebooted twice (just to be sure, once bitten and all that).

Then I tried the LiveUpdate again - it failed again.

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Thanks for the feedback and setting that to off. We recommend leaving it off due to known issues. Of course that will be a choice for you to make. When live update fails do you get any error from your Norton product, IE a numeric code? Does it offer the "fix it" solution? Also what is the current version installed? You can get that info by opening your Norton sys tray icon then click help, then about. You stated you have Norton Core Security as well. Do you have Core and is this computer on a Core network?

Cheers

"From DOS to Windows10 what a journey it has been" / MS Certified Professional / Windows 10 Home / Professional x 64 version 1903 / build 18362.239 / N360 Deluxe 22.17.3.50 / Norton Core v.282 on Android 2.00
Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Hello

Did the new computer come with any free trial security program? If it came with any free security program, then it has to be removed with the Removal Tool from the other Vendor. What Firmware version and what App version and is it Android or IOS? What is the motherboard that comes with the computer?

Have a Nice Day and

Thanks.

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view. Windows 10 Pro 64 bit Norton Core Security Plus 22.17.3.50 Core Firmware 282 I E 11 Chrome latest version.
Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

@SoulAsylum

First, I want to say Thanks for your initial suggestion - I forgot to thank you, it was bad etiquette.

I'll leave 'fast startup' off as you suggested - although it doesn't seem to be causing any issues on my 2 laptops (mine and my son's).

Technically, LiveUpdate doesn't "fail" in the traditional sense, it doesn't give any error messages or anything. The computer just hangs, becomes completely unresponsive. This usually happens at the final update. For eg, if there are 5 updates then when it is "Installing update 5 of 5", if there are 6, then at '6 of 6'. I can't do anything at this point, no mouse movement/gesture, mouse clicks or keyboard taps register. The only thing I can do is press the Power button until the machine shuts down. Then start it up again.

The current Norton version is Norton Security ver 22.14.0.54 (SKU 21366633).

Yes, I do have Norton Core (had preordered and have had it since it came out) - I'm on a Core network.

@floplot

Thanks for the reply. When I ordered my computer from Dell, I specifically asked not to include any other security program, even the McAfee trial. So my machine was free from any other security software other than what Microsoft itself provides - Defender. And the Norton installation has disabled Defender Virus & threat protection.

I have attached the component list here. I'm not sure what the exact motherboard is, I didn't assemble it myself. See the attached "Dell_Alienware_Desktop_Specs.txt" for details.

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

@floplot

This is what I was able to find using Alienware SupportAssist about the motherboard:

Motherboard details:
Manufacturer: Alienware
Product: 0N4R4N
BIOS: Alienware ver 1.1.9
SMBIOS: ver 3.0


Do you need other info like "Intel(R) Chipset SATA/PCIe RST Premium Controller", "Intel(R) USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller" or "ASMedia USB 3.1 eXtensible Host Controller" as well?

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

NP Everybody, and you are most welcome. Another question which eluded my asking before is whether you have an SSD and if so is it set as the boot device on the laptop? Opening your Norton sys tray icon, look to the left for the "fix it". Click and run if you haven't already and see if the troubleshooter corrects anything.

Cheers

"From DOS to Windows10 what a journey it has been" / MS Certified Professional / Windows 10 Home / Professional x 64 version 1903 / build 18362.239 / N360 Deluxe 22.17.3.50 / Norton Core v.282 on Android 2.00
Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

@SoulAsylum

Yes, a 512GB M.2 PCIe SSD is set as the boot device.

I don't see any "fix it" option with the sys-tray icon, but opening Norton Security offers the "Fix Now" option. Clicking on it starts the LiveUpdate process as well, which leads to the same issue.

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Everybody, go into your Norton dashboard, under "Exploit Prevention" disable them and reboot the system. Lets see if that is playing a role in causing this issue. Also disable your idle time optimizer.

Cheers

"From DOS to Windows10 what a journey it has been" / MS Certified Professional / Windows 10 Home / Professional x 64 version 1903 / build 18362.239 / N360 Deluxe 22.17.3.50 / Norton Core v.282 on Android 2.00
Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

@SoulAsylum

I'll give that a try and report back. Thanks for the suggestion.

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Hello Everybody

There is also another setting for disk optimization under Settings>Task Scheduling>Automatic Tasks>Performance. Turn that one off also.

Have a Good Night and

Thanks.

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view. Windows 10 Pro 64 bit Norton Core Security Plus 22.17.3.50 Core Firmware 282 I E 11 Chrome latest version.
Kudos1 Stats

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Thank you SoulAsylum and floplot for your suggestions - I was unable to try out the suggestions you folks so kindly provided as I had some stuff going on at home.

I'll try these out during the weekend and report back if I see any improvement (until now, I had disabled the "Automatic Liveupdate" which safeguards the computer from crashing).

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Hi SoulAsylum & floplot,

I tried all three suggestions you gave - here are my updates:

  • Disabled all "Exploit Prevention" settings and rebooted
  • Norton LiveUpdate still caused computer to hang
  • Disabled Idle Time Optimizer and rebooted
  • Norton LiveUpdate still caused computer to hang
  • Turned off Task Scheduling > .. Performance setting and rebooted
  • Norton LiveUpdate still caused computer to hang

I also tried Settings > Antivirus > Updates > "Apply Updates only on Reboot" and rebooted. But Norton LiveUpdate still caused computer to hang

I think there's a bigger problem with Norton LiveUpdate or Auto-Protect off/on not running or deployment tested against certain computer configurations. Even when Norton Core support helped me last week, the only way they were able to do this is by completely removing Norton and then reinstalling from the NSBU.

However, if you have any other suggestions or can help me escalate this, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks.

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Hello Everybody

Please try this

Settings>Antivirus>Automatic Protection>Boot Time Protection>OFF>APPLY

Then restart.

Have a Good Night and

Thanks. 

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view. Windows 10 Pro 64 bit Norton Core Security Plus 22.17.3.50 Core Firmware 282 I E 11 Chrome latest version.
Kudos1 Stats

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Hi floplot,

The problem seems to have resolved itself for now.

Earlier, when downloading the NSBU version was NSBU-ESD-22.12.0.104-EN.exe, and so it worked until the patches got it to 22.14.0.54, after which the LiveUpdate started causing the computer crashes. Downloading through my Norton account directly got to 22.14.0.54 and succeeding LiveUpdate crashes, so I followed the NSBU route as that at least seemed to work for a little while.

Today when I hit the NSBU URL, the version it served was NSBU-ESD-Def-22.14.0.54-EN.exe. After installing it, all LiveUpdates have been working fine.

This makes me think that there was one particular update within LiveUpdate after 22.14.0.54 that was causing this issue, and the NSBU version was probably newer than that, thus saving me from the crash.

I'll keep an eye on this for 2-3 days, and if I don't encounter any further issues, I'll provide an update stating that this issue seems to be resolved now. If I see any further crashes, I'll try out the Boot Time Protection tweak you mentioned.

Thanks again!

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

@floplot

Seems I spoke too soon. After a day of relative peace, LiveUpdate has started causing the computer to hang again.

Also, Boot Time Protection was already set to Off.

Would either you or SoulAsylum be able to escalate this issue so that any necessary debugging can happen?

Thanks for all your suggestions again.

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Hi, Everybody. I've asked if someone from Symantec can contact you for possibly asking you for logs, so stay tuned !.

@Sunil_GA

@Gayathri_R

Windows 10 Home X 64
Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Thanks F4E, had a very busy day yesterday and didn't get to the forums much.

Cheers

"From DOS to Windows10 what a journey it has been" / MS Certified Professional / Windows 10 Home / Professional x 64 version 1903 / build 18362.239 / N360 Deluxe 22.17.3.50 / Norton Core v.282 on Android 2.00
Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Thanks F4E!

Kudos2 Stats

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Hi Everybody.

I work for Symantec, but I don't work in tech support, I work on the STAR components. You could still be contacted by the Norton Support Team. I worked with a Norton customer reporting something similar a few months ago.

https://community.norton.com/en/forums/x299-still-bsod-norton-internet-s....

Your system has an INTEL i9 7980xe CPU and the motherboard must use the x299 Intel Chipset. You stated that the BIOS version is Alienware ver. 1.1.9 which I googled to find the release date. 7/5/2017. Have you tried to update the BIOS firmware since owning the computer? July 5, 2017 is about the time the i9 went on sale.

Usually, there is a BSOD crash when live update is run that brings the entire system to a dead stop. The bugcheck is WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR (124).

Could you let me know if you are getting BSOD crashes when LU runs? You mentioned crashes, and I swear I read the entire thread, but I don't see what I am looking for. Do you have a c:\windows\memory.dmp file that might be related to these? I can analyze it for you to see if this is same problem. Don't post the file on the public facing forum. You can send me a private message instead and I will provide instructions.

Thanks
T McCormick
STAR CRT Symantec

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Hi TMcCormick,

Thanks for contacting me. I was contacted by someone from Norton Support called Sunil - he asked me to do a Remove Only via Norton RnR and then download the latest NSBU to install the software again, and then run LiveUpdates manually. I've already done this several times by now, though. Even so, today I went ahead and did it again.

Thanks for that heads-up about the BIOS though. I just went ahead and updated the BIOS firmware to 1.1.10. It came out on 3/21/2018.

I don't see BSODs. The LiveUpdates just brings the system to a dead stop - the screen completely freezes, anything that was running or being viewed on the screen will stop, no mouse movement, no keyboard actions, nothing.

I tried leaving it on once for close to an hour, but nothing. Even the screen turn-off after 10 minutes didn't happen. It's not as if the system becomes very slow - it just...ceases to function.

I don't see a memory.dmp file in the C:\Windows directory.

Regards,

  M Patel

Accepted Solution
Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Now that we have a "hidden" reason for what could be the actual issue there are other threads where the x299 chipsets have been causing havoc for ages. All have gone unattended without a solution. Some are now closed from further comment: https://community.norton.com/en/forums/bsod-symefasi64sys

https://community.norton.com/en/forums/norton-security-causing-x299-chipset-motherboards-crash

https://community.norton.com/en/comment/7591981#comment-7591981

Probably wouldn't hurt to have a look at this site for the certified drivers on the system directly from Intel.

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/product/123613/Intel-Core-i9-7900X-X-series-Processor-13-75M-Cache-up-to-4-30-GHz-

Cheers

"From DOS to Windows10 what a journey it has been" / MS Certified Professional / Windows 10 Home / Professional x 64 version 1903 / build 18362.239 / N360 Deluxe 22.17.3.50 / Norton Core v.282 on Android 2.00
Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Hi SoulAsylum,

After TMcCormick's suggestion, I went ahead and manually updated the BIOS and other drivers that weren't up-to-date.

Thanks for pointing me to the Intel center - the only drivers that are still not up-to-date so far are:

  • Intel® Turbo Boost Max Technology 3.0

I'll go ahead and update that as well.

That said, I respectfully disagree with you on the 'actual issue' being the x299 chipset.

By now, I have installed several other applications on this system - none of them have caused any issues so far. Not even a minor one like an application crash or anything.

The only application where I'm experiencing issues is with Norton Security.

And, as a Software Engineer myself, I would like to say that it is the responsibility of the software developer/team/org to ensure their application is compatible on every environment (hardware + OS) it will be installed on, not the responsibility of the environment to switch to support various software being installed on it (Lawrence Conlin said it better with his example of switching to AVG and not experiencing any issues).

I myself have been a Norton customer for more than 10 years (before that I used ZoneAlarm) and ever since the Norton Core, I have experienced one issue after another until January of this year (when it finally seems to have gotten resolved).

I would like to keep on using Norton Security as I have mostly had great experiences with it, but I can only leave my new system unprotected for so long.

Currently the Norton installation is running ok, but I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Regards,

  Manish

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

By the way guys, I seem to have found an additional bug for the comments threads.

If you post a comment, you have a counter for 60 minutes in which you can make edits.

But after posting the comment, if you click on the "Kudos" button/link for anybody, the counter switches from minutes to seconds, and every other second it will switch from 60 minutes to 60 seconds.

So, the first second you will see 58 seconds left, then 3597 seconds left, then 56 seconds left, then 3595 second, until it reaches 1 second and then locks your post from further edits.

So you only have 1 minute left to edit if you click on Kudos after posting something.

You can get around this by refreshing the page, at which point the counter will switch back to 50+ minutes left.

I found this out when I first gave Kudos to SoulAsylum and floplot a day or 2 ago after a new post, and then today when I did the same for TMcCormick.

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Hi Everyone.

Thank you for trying the BIOS update. Without the signature WHEA bugcheck, I am not certain how much a difference it makes.

I can't really comment on who is at fault because we don't see a memory.dmp associated with the running of LU on this computer.

For those with the WHEA bugcheck, updating the BIOS was the solution. However, for some systems it exposed a different Bugcheck. For customers who got the WHEA crash running LU, this seemed to fix it. In this case, I am not sure.

Thanks
T McCormick

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Everybody verify that you have ONLY .NET 4.5 enabled on your system.

Cheers

"From DOS to Windows10 what a journey it has been" / MS Certified Professional / Windows 10 Home / Professional x 64 version 1903 / build 18362.239 / N360 Deluxe 22.17.3.50 / Norton Core v.282 on Android 2.00
Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

I have .NET Framework 4.7.1 according to https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/framework/migration-guide/how-to...

See below:

File Attachment: 
Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Indeed as I do as well. That was a typo on my part, should have said 4.7

"From DOS to Windows10 what a journey it has been" / MS Certified Professional / Windows 10 Home / Professional x 64 version 1903 / build 18362.239 / N360 Deluxe 22.17.3.50 / Norton Core v.282 on Android 2.00
Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Everybody - Here are some threads where other x299 chipset users have issues. NONE have been resolved completely. And their issues are 100% Norton's issue.

https://community.norton.com/en/forums/norton-security-causing-x299-chipset-motherboards-crash

Cheers

"From DOS to Windows10 what a journey it has been" / MS Certified Professional / Windows 10 Home / Professional x 64 version 1903 / build 18362.239 / N360 Deluxe 22.17.3.50 / Norton Core v.282 on Android 2.00
Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Thanks SoulAsylum.

I get an "Access Denied" when I try to access the first link - https://community.norton.com/en/forums/x299-chipsets-and-bsod-symefasi64sys

Anything you can do about that? I can't even request access to it or something. I just get a simple boilerplate " You are not authorized to access this page." text response.

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

My bad again. Gotta love the windows clip board. Pasting the wrong link. I removed that link since its in a private area where Guru's and Admins only have access. Apologies. The 2nd link is the one I wanted you to actually see to compare.

Cheers

"From DOS to Windows10 what a journey it has been" / MS Certified Professional / Windows 10 Home / Professional x 64 version 1903 / build 18362.239 / N360 Deluxe 22.17.3.50 / Norton Core v.282 on Android 2.00
Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Hi.

Some of these "unresolved" cases I worked with the customer directly and we resolved the issue behind the scenes.

There was a fix for the symefasi.sys crash that resolved the BSOD. It was listed as fixed in the Hot Issues and Fixes list last year, but i don't see it now.

For Everyone, if the problem did not go away after flashing the BIOS, then it could be the same issue that is reported in this thread.

https://community.norton.com/en/forums/norton-security-service-stops-con...

I am assuming that since there is still activity on this thread, that flashing the BIOS did not make any difference and running liveupdate is still causing the system to lock up. Is that correct?

Thanks
T McCormick
STAR CRT

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

I am assuming that since there is still activity on this thread, that flashing the BIOS did not make any difference and running liveupdate is still causing the system to lock up. Is that correct?

Hi TMcCormick,

I haven't seen any issues in the past 1.5 days after I reinstalled the application and updated the drivers.

However, the reason I'm currently waiting is that even after the last time I did an RnR Remove and then NSBU-install, it worked for a little over a day and then started failing.

One thing I noticed is that if it's just 1 or 2 updates, the LU seems to finish fine; it's when there are 5, 6 or more updates that it causes the crash at the final update (5/5, 6/6 or some other variation).

I haven't seen it so far, and fingers crossed I don't see it again.

Regards,

  Manish

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Hi Everyone.

Thanks for responding. I see. It might have fixed it. I agree, give it a few weeks to see what happens.

Thanks
T McCormick
STAR CRT

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Hi TMcCormick,

UPDATES:

3.5 days now.

Going ok so far. Not encountered any instance where there were more than or equal to 5 updates. The most updates there have been in one go so far have been 3.

I'll observe for a couple of weeks, and try to provide updates every 2-3 days.

After a few weeks, if this doesn't pop up again, I think we can call it closed.

Regards,

  Manish

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Hi

That is good to know. I think this only works on windows 10.

Thanks
Tim

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

UPDATES:

It's been over 5 days now, and still no failure.

Cautiously optimistic...

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

UPDATES:

Over 10 days now, no issues.

I've stopped wincing in dread when running LiveUpdate.

Thanks TMcCormick & SoulAsylum.

I'll give it another last week, just to be sure.

Kudos0

Re: Norton LiveUpdate causing desktop computer to hang and crash

Hi.

Thanks for the update. Hopefully you can enjoy your new computer and our software without any more problems.

T McCormick

This thread is closed from further comment. Please visit the forum to start a new thread.