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Kudos0

product complaint

Hello - 

I have been looking for an avenue to complain privately to Norton and failed. Norton security over the last 2 days decided my new USB disk from PG Music was low reputation on some key files. Despite my settings set to ask first, it deleted these key files - no they are NOT in quarantine. This is in my mind malicious damage and as a result we have lost the ability to fully use the software that a few days before had cost $160. I have been trying to complain directly to your team, but you only seem to offer users public forums. I am looking for a full refund and compensation for the loss I have experienced. How your product can be designed to DELETE on the basis of finding low reputation files and folders with NO opportunity to stop or confirm the action, beggars belief.

Replies

Kudos0

Re: product complaint

Have you opened a trouble ticket / caseID with Norton Support via Chat with Norton Support
So, NS scanned your new USB and deleted files directly from the USB ?  And they're no where to be found eg: Unresolved Risks / Resolved Risks / Quarantine.    WOW !

Please let us know how you progress....

Kudos2 Stats

Re: product complaint

Please read all of this message since there may be a solution at the end ....

I'm not sure what you mean by USB Disk unless you mean an external hard drive.

Looking at their website I see that under System Requirements they say:

DVD drive for shipped versions of the MegaPAK or Pro version.

and in their FAQs:


17. If I choose to download the program, will I still get shipped a hard copy of the software and documentation?


If you would like to receive a physical copy of the software and printed documentation, just choose one of the shipping options available, and not electronic delivery. You will still be able to download the program, but you will also receive your order by the shipping method you selected.

Did you ask for a hard copy?

and

Some anti-virus programs and firewalls can cause various problems downloading some files. It is not normally obvious what is causing the problem. Some symptoms might include downloads stopping halfway, receiving a file that is "0 bytes", file extensions being changed, or the file being 'quarantined'. You may need to disable the software or adjust a setting before you start the download. If you are connected to a local area network, you may have to contact your network administrator about this.

and

43. When I try to install the program I get a message that the "setup files are corrupted".
 

This normally occurs with downloaded programs. This error may occur when double-clicking on an installer that was downloaded from our site. It means that the setup file is the wrong size or the file failed a CRC (cyclic redundancy check). Most likely something went wrong when you were downloading the file, for example your internet connection may have been lost. Delete the file that you downloaded and try the download again. Note that your browser may have cached the old (corrupt) file, so to be sure, before downloading the file again delete your internet browser's cache (temporary internet files). Then, right-click on the download link and select Save As. If the download seems to happen very fast the second time, that's an indication that it's using a cached file.


So instead of blaming Norton for doing its job of protecting you I suggest you try what they say in 43 and download again.

This time follow their instructions and clear all files and caches, temporarily disable (not uninstall) your Norton protection and when the download begins select Save As, not Run, and save the file to your hard drive where you can find it again.

To temporarily disable a Norton product you usually right mouse click on the Norton icon on the bar at the bottom right and select Disable Norton Autoprotect -- make sure to re-enable it later.

When that works and you have saved the file, then make a copy of the downloaded file to another location, say a folder called Install from or to a thumbdrive and when you go to install use that just in case something happens. That way you have a backup copy.

After you have safely downloaded you can re-enable Norton or, if you are sure the download is safe, you can leave it disabled until after installing your PG Music product.

Norton sometimes raises the alarm about files that are not frequently encountered.

Be sure to re-enable Norton before doing anything else with your computer that involves downloading or going on line.

I hope that helps you and please let us know how you get along.

PS I've corrected some typos and edited out some of what I said since I think I now understand what you meant by USB DISK

Hugh
Kudos0

Re: product complaint

Thanks huwyngr ~ Kudos

Kudos1 Stats

Re: product complaint

huwyngr,

I've read gabriesa's original post and your reply. Your reply was thorough, but perhaps you missed something ....

gabriesa's main complaint seemed to be that NS deleted some file ... here's an excerpt from the OP:

Despite my settings set to ask first, it deleted these key files

I just re-read parts of the NS Product Manual.

On page 162 in the section titled "Configuring the Download Insight Notifications option", it says (underlining is mine):

You can use the Download Insight Notifications option
to choose when you want Download Insight to display
notifications.
By default, the Download Insight Notifications option
is set to On. Based on the type of application you use
to download your file, your Norton product does one of
the following:

  • Notifies you each time when you download an executable file.
  • Notifies you only when you download a file that is infected with a local virus identification. If the file that you download is infected with a cloud virus identification, your Norton product removes the file from your computer and notifies you with the threat details.

Then, on pages 163-165, in the section titled: "Configuring the Show Report on Launch of Files option", in the descriptions for "options to configure Show Report on Launch of Files" ... the descriptions for options "Always" and "Unproven Only" state this:  "In the case of unsafe files, your Norton product identifies them as threat and removes them."

Is it possible that when gabriesa downloaded files from PG Music, NS might have mistakenly thought some of those files were unsafe and deleted them? gabriesa does state that this deletion happened "Despite my settings set to ask first".

I do not have NS installed ... I am only guessing based on what I read in the NS Product Manual. Perhaps someone who does have NS installed could provide a good tutorial on what settings to change such that NS will not delete unsafe files but just quarantine them instead?

Kudos0

Re: product complaint

Thanks geek47 ~ Kudos ~ What does NS Manual say about Remove Risks If I Am Away like with NIS ~ Maybe with NS there is a time factor.   Like the NS FW timer that has no user input other than stop timer.   Permalink  Permalink

Kudos0

Re: product complaint

geek47

If you read my message again you will see that I was aware of and dealt with the complaint:

1 -- << So instead of blaming Norton for doing its job of protecting you I suggest you try what they say in 43 and download again.  >>

2 - I gave guidance from the company downloaded from on how to avoid download problems of the kind encountered.

More important, I dealt with the real complaint:

<<  as a result we have lost the ability to fully use the software that a few days before had cost $160. [  I have been trying to complain directly to your team, but you only seem to offer users public forums. ]  I am looking for a full refund and compensation for the loss I have experienced. >>

and shown him that the supplier does allow for downloading replacements for damaged downloads which can happen to anyone and for many, many reasons not just from security applications.

I regarded it  as more important to show how to rectify that latter situation than to start a question and answer session on settings and how to change them or how to report false positives etc .....

As for the bit I put in square brackets, as we all know here, that is not correct.

Hugh
Kudos0

Re: product complaint

Huwyngr: sorry, I did not mean to imply that you did not deal with OP's problem ... you certainly did. My concern was that NS apparently deleted files from the user's computer even though the user says he/she set options not to do so. Can you (or someone) describe the correct settings that would cause NS to only quarantine an unsafe file and not delete it?
Kudos0

Re: product complaint

Thanks for the info bjm_ about how to complain - I will do so now. On Christmas day I couldn't see how to and thought no one would be on the Chat function. Yes sadly I connected my purchased USB drive with my new s/w on it and immediately NS deleted the installer - so upset especially as the reason was low reputation! 

Kudos0

Re: product complaint

huwyngr - I bought the USB external drive version of my PG software - no downloads at all because my internet connection is extremely slow and data costs high where I live. The file - the installer- was deleted by NS immediately the drive was connected giving the reason low reputation - if you believe that this is an acceptable way for virus protection to work - then we are talking on a completely different page here. If the NS on connecting the drive,  had reported a Trojan or rampant virus risk - I would not be complaining on this forum. But it decided the installer file was of low reputation only and deleted it leaving me unable to fully us my drive until now. 

Kudos0

Re: product complaint

thanks Geek47 -  as you suggest, I only connected a purchased USB drive at no point were any files downloaded for NS to get concerned. Immediately the USB drive was connected NS reported it had deleted the installer because it decided it was low reputation. As far as I can see, I have everything set in NS to ask first. Clearly something isn't right though. 

Kudos0

Re: product complaint

Huwyngr - very confused by this reply from you that you actually think as the customer here, that my problem is solved by your replies so far. I have a hard disk that cost me $160 that now won't work. Blaming NS - yes 100% correct - deleting a file on a hard disk because it feels it is of low reputation - I am amazed you feel you can defend that as acceptable. 

Kudos0

Re: product complaint

Rather than hijack this thread, I have started a new thread in order to find out if there are any settings in Norton Security that can be used to cause potentially "unsafe" files to be quarantined, but NOT deleted. That thread can be found here.

Kudos1 Stats

Re: product complaint

I see a $159 item on their Buy Now page http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.packages.htm which I imagine is what you bought and that it does include Download rights so if you have a friend with a better internet connection perhaps you can get them to download again for you. They can always burn it to a thumbdrive and send it to you. Also you could contact PG Music and ask for help in getting it again.

I'm not going to argue with you about what Norton should or should not do or about settings. PG Music warns you to disable security software (as do other sources of software including Microsoft) so it's a pity you did not know about this and do it. It's also a pity you did not back up the installation files or protect them since if they are on a USB thumbdrive or hard drive (which is it as a matter of interest; PG Music refer to it as a USB Hard Drive) they can always be damaged or lost when the drive fails.

Do note in case you do not know that all of the people who have posted here are users like you. None of us are Norton employees. The guru tag just means Norton selected us to help in the forums and gave us access to some facilities to do this. But if you stick around you will find plenty of comments on how Norton works, both favorable and unfavorable, including from me.

My reason for posting as I did is so that hopefully you will not contact Norton in "attack" mode but rather "how can we resolve this situation?"

Hugh
Kudos0

Re: product complaint

Huwyngr - sadly u are right a backup would have been a nice opportunity but NS deleted the file immediately the USB disk was attached to my pc. PG music have been in touch since the incident and I can't fault their professional support although due to the holidays we are still working on an appropriate solution. I have logged a support call with NS but so far no one has responded.
Kudos0

Re: product complaint

gabriesa:
Huwyngr - . I have logged a support call with NS but so far no one has responded.

IMO ~ sure, solving the issue in primary....but, at the same time logging an issue is equally important as a venue to help "all" users.   Any issue related to Norton even if Norton is not overtly causal should be reported to all actors including Norton.   The basis for Community Watch is Community.  User does not have to prove causal link to be a responsible citizen of the Norton Community.  

Kudos0

Re: product complaint

I'm glad to hear that PG Music are being helpful. On contacting Norton, user experience is that it is better to use the On Line CHAT route that uses the computer keyboard and not the phone:

Norton Chat Support

Unfortunately feedback also shows response time from email and phone to be very variable and mostly poor .... although one has to remember that we get the bad news here and not the good news.

Before you plug in any new drive that you might get -- in fact before you plug in any USB drive -- there is one important step you should take which is to disable Autoplay on the computer. See step 1 of this article which came up when I Googled on: what checks for malware when I plug in a USB drive 

I still don't know which version of Windows you are using so I won't search for how to disable it but what is easy is to hold down the SHIFT key when you plug in the drive. This should bring up a small screen asking what you want to do.

On Windows 7 which I am using at the moment just open Control Panel and click on the icon Autoplay -- I would recommend unchecking the checkbox at the very top left and then disks and USB drives will not automatically open to show the contents, or if they contain the autorun function they will not start up automatically.

This makes me think that Norton did not go digging inside an innocent drive but that the drive started up automatically to install the contents and Norton therefore checked the files as they entered the system. I understand your concern at "deleting" innocent files and I am surprised that they were deleted and not quarantined but I don't know anything about the NS settings since I don't use that version yet. Since I gather that it is closer to the older Norton 360 which was an install and forget for people who not want to mess with fine tuning it may be set to delete as a default since that best protects normal use, if not when one is plugging in a USB drive.

At least until you have your PG Music applications installed and unplug the USB drive I would uncheck that setting in Control Panel / Autoplay even if it means that music disks will not automatically run but only when you initiate the action.

I hope that helps.

Hugh
Kudos0

Re: product complaint

Agree re Auto Play.  OP reports Norton setting Ask Me.  Maybe a timing issue ?  IDK 

I hope Ask Me is not window dressing as that's my Norton preference.  Along with Auto Play Ask Me

Kudos0

Re: product complaint

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed at all times (perhaps never), but if you attempt to download something from a USB Drive onto your computer, your AV blocks the download (regardless of if it is quarantined or removed), then the AV will notify you of the block.  The file (exe) still remains on the USB Drive, you exclude the file (thinking it is a false positive), and re-download it and away you go!

How did I lose the $$??

Kudos0

Re: product complaint

Hello Yank

The O/P has a slow connection. He/she wanted to buy this program.  Instead of having to download it, the seller put it on a USB external hard drive. When the hard drive was attached, Norton scanned it and removed the file in question. It was removed before the user could move it to her computer and exclude it..  If the user would have known that was going to happen, the file could have been excluded..

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view. Windows 10 Pro 64 bit Norton Core Security Plus 22.17.3.50 Core Firmware 282 I E 11 Chrome latest version.
Kudos0

Re: product complaint

Or if Ask Me worked from USB

Kudos0

Re: product complaint

Or as SendOfJive pointed out (in another thread) ... Norton Security has several different features (SONAR, Download Intelligence, Antivirus, etc) ... and each of these features have their own settings.

One could have set "Ask Me" for one of those features, while another feature (with some other option set) was responsible for deleting the files from the inserted USB drive.

It's hard (at least for me) to keep the various features, and their respective choices of settings) straight!

Kudos0

Re: product complaint

geek47 - you are almost certainly right - clearly we believed we had set everything to ask before deleting anything but the fact NS deleted the exe when we connected the USB disk with the PC, logically means we missed something somewhere. I don't think when we moved from AVG (purchased) to NS at the start of December, that we appreciated it was quite such a difficult product to keep a handle on. We have been buying these USB s/w disks from PG Music for several years now and this has never happened - not even a warning from AVG even though it would have checked the disk.. But this year as I said, we had NS. I'll keep chasing NS support - still no reply yet but I guess it is technically still the holidays. 

Kudos1 Stats

Re: product complaint

The answer to the question "Can NS quarantine and not delete unsafe files", the answer is yes.  As noted by other postings in this thread, the default is to have NS "remove" the unsafe files.  There is a temporary "pop up" window from NS that announces that it is scanning the downloaded file, then there is a second pop up window that says it is either "safe" or is "unsafe" and has been removed.  If you are not looking for the temporary pop up window, you could miss seeing it.


NS actually "quarantines" the file.  To get it back, you open NS's home window > Security > History.  Then search for the history entry that "removed" the file.  It should be color coded "orange" (medium" or  "red" (high risk). Once you locate the line item entry, click on it once, then detailed information should appear on the right hand side of the window.  Under "Recommended Action," you will see "Resolved - No Action Required."  Immediately under that sentence is "restore".  Click on "restore" and you will be given the option to restore the file out of quarantine.  To learn more about why NS "removed" the file, click on "options" instead of "restore" (you will also be able to "restore" after selecting "options".

NS 22.6.0.142, Win7 Pro x64 SP1
Kudos0

Re: product complaint

burningkeys:

... the default is to have NS "remove" the unsafe files. ...  a second pop up window that says it is either "safe" or is "unsafe" and has been removed.

NS actually "quarantines" the file. 

burningkeys,

Thanks for the clarification.

But I am still confused ...if the default is "remove", and the pop-up says the unsafe file has been removed, then how/why does NS actually "quarantine"?

Does one have to first change the default setting from "remove" (or "automatic"?) to "quarantine" (or "ask me") before NS will actually quarantine the file (instead of removing it)? And if so, in which feature (SONAR, Download Insight, Antivirus, etc)?

I am sorry for all of my questions .... I do not have Norton Security ... I am trying to understand what the options are for the various features (SONAR, Download Insight, Antivirus, etc) that check files for safety ... which is hopefully on topic for this thread since the OP was also trying to understand how/why files from an inserted USB drive were automatically deleted (when "ask me" was supposedly set .... but perhaps it was set in a different feature).

Kudos1 Stats

Re: product complaint

burningkeys - the file definitely never made it to Quarrantine, if it had, we wouldn't be in this mess and I would have found the actions of NS acceptable if perhaps annoying. The exe file from the USB disk is as far as I know, shredded. Even tried a main stream file recovery software to un-delete the file - no luck. 

Kudos1 Stats

Re: product complaint

gabriesa:  in the remote chance that you are having difficulties locating the "quarantined" files in NS, I've attached a PDF with screen shots (sorry if you have already done this, but I am attaching just in case).  Best, burningkeys

NS 22.6.0.142, Win7 Pro x64 SP1
Kudos0

Re: product complaint

geek47:  I have answered your question in the generic thread you created to ask the quarantine question.

NS 22.6.0.142, Win7 Pro x64 SP1
Kudos0

Re: product complaint

burningkeys:

gabriesa:  in the remote chance that you are having difficulties locating the "quarantined" files in NS, I've attached a PDF with screen shots (sorry if you have already done this, but I am attaching just in case).  Best, burningkeys

May I use your excellent presentation or do you have a copyright.... Kudos

Kudos0

Re: product complaint

bjm:  intended for public use, no copyright involved.

NS 22.6.0.142, Win7 Pro x64 SP1
Kudos0

Re: product complaint

burningkeys:   bjm:  intended for public use, no copyright involved.

Thanks ~ beautiful presentation    Norton needs U on staff ! 

Kudos0

Re: product complaint

THANKS burningkeys.

I have marked your reply (in generic thread) as the solution.

This thread is closed from further comment. Please visit the forum to start a new thread.