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Kudos1 Stats

Where do I even begin

So, I have been a Norton customer for many many many years. Going back to the 1990's, I have purchased your products, renewed subscriptions, and have even highly recommended Norton Antivirus to friends, colleagues, random people I meet, pretty much if I run into someone looking for a antivirus software I recommend Norton.  Or at least I did... I don't know anymore however.  If my experience with your customer service is the "normal" experience I would tell people to avoid this company like the plague.  In the past your product has been very good at keeping virus's and other malicious software off of my computers.  In the rare occasion that I did get a virus, I was able to get it removed with Norton on most occasions.  A few required that I just reinstall my OS and go from there. 

We all know malware writers are creating more sophisticated malware every day, but when something happens it is within reason to believe that the company I have been purchasing antivirus protection from for almost 30 years would be well equipped to at least assist in removing or recovering from an incident.  Well, apparently that is not the case as your "support" is nothing more than someone sitting in India, reading from a "script book" who can't think beyond that and make any sort of rational thought or reasoning beyond the limited scope of the script he/she is reading from.  Give them a real problem and they can't handle it, they just default to the script and if it falls outside the script they are completely inept. 

So, I have no idea what is actually wrong with my system.  I suspect Windows Defender is the actual culprit, but of course proving that is near impossible.  Microsoft does everything they can to prevent the user from disabling that fake attempt at "security".  After a recent "update" from Microsoft I noticed that Norton was no longer showing in my task bar and when I try to open it, it either never opens or an error message pops up on the screen after several minutes of absolutely nothing.  When the error message pops up, it gives an error code of 8504 101.  It suggests that it has installed a fix and needs to restart, which does absolutely nothing. 

This is actually the second computer I have had this happen on and the only similarity between them was that they were both at the same version of Windows 10.  So, thinking that Norton has legitimate support I contacted the chat support.  It is obvious to me now why Norton does not have phone support, I would be surprised if Norton employ's anyone who speaks English as a first language. 

So, being forced to either use twitter... really, you call that a support option?, that should have been a red flag right away, or the chat I opted for the chat.  I can surmise that either route would have ended the same.  The person I was speaking with in chat immediately suggested that I give them remote access to my computer, 2nd mistake I made.  I already had a fairly good idea what was going on and wanted to see if they came to the same solution.  So, I figured sure, let me see what they do.  Well, this moron takes over my computer, ends the chat session, and begins to attempt to install something to my computer.  Uh... really???  Who gave that A-hole even the slightest inclining that they were supposed to be doing anything of the sort.  He didn't even do any F'ing troubleshooting, he just started to remove the version of Norton that was installed and began to download something else.  Thankfully the window for the remote access was still open and I promptly killed their connection. 

I mean, seriously?  Are you guys nothing but a bunch of hackers pretending to be a security company?  What absolute BS, I should probably pursue legal action on that alone.  So, this a-hole tried multiple times to request access to my computer, which I obviously denied every single time.  He also tried to convince me that he was "fixing" my problem.  How the hell are you fixing anything if you didn't even check to see what the problem was?  If he was a legitimate representative of Norton this asshat should be fired asap.  If what this incompetent jerk was going to do was uninstall and reinstall Norton and call it "fixed", he obviously don't know a damn thing and should, again, be fired.  He obviously thought I was a moron as he tried on multiple occasions to re-establish his remote control of my computer.   It wasn't until the error message popped up on my screen again, as he had accomplished absolutely nothing and was only trying to convince me that he was "trying to help"... yeah... I believe that.... sure. 

Before I get to that, this retard was trying to tell me that my graphics card was possibly causing problems with Norton starting.  He then insisted that I probably have either McAfee or some other antivirus software installed.  So, this moron doesn't know what he is doing and is either trying to point to something else as the problem, to which he can then say "not my problem anymore", or he really thought I was an absolute moron.  Either way, this person is the incompetent idiot who shouldn't even be allowed near a computer.

When the error code popped up again, I told him what it was.  He then gave me a link to download software to supposedly "fix" the issue.  Well, the link he gave me came back as "does not exists" in both Chrome and Firefox.  Probably for the best as he was probably trying to get me to install whatever crap (probably a virus) he was trying to install earlier.  So, he suggested that I install Norton Power Eraser.  I have used that before, so I did not follow the link he gave me because I wouldn't trust this guy with anything at this point.  I also had tried this already and it didn't work.  But, I figured what the heck, why not.  So, I downloaded NPE again, ran it again, and..... nothing.  It found literally nothing.  He then suggested that I go and remove some registry entries and possible "rouge" devices in device manager.  Again, taking this guys suggestions with less than a grain of salt, I still looked into it.  Again, I found absolutely nothing regarding what he told me to look for.  So, his next suggestion... which would supposedly fix everything.... was to fun a disk check...... really?  A disk check is going to remove a possible virus from my computer... this guy must really be an absolute total idiot.  Maybe he was dropped too many times on his head as a child?  Obviously, this did absolutely nothing. 

So, I have gone through and manually removed from my registry all traces of Norton.  Any entry that even remotely referenced Norton was deleted from the Windows registry.  I did this after running a normal uninstall process on Norton first.  So, here I am now, with no Antivirus, a possible virus on my computer, a lot of money spent on Norton software, and Windows Defender trying to tell me that it is the only thing I need.  As a security researcher myself, I know how bad Windows Defender actually is.  It has been used as the point of entry for numerous hacks in the past, what reason do I have to believe that it is any better now than it was previously. 

Are there any real security people who use this forum who have had any experience with Windows Defender completely preventing a "competing" antivirus software from running and know how to get around that?  I have done all that I can to try to 100% disable Windows Defender and will attempt to reinstall Norton one more time, but if this fails, I will never use anything from this company again. 

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Replies

Kudos0

Re: Where do I even begin

Do you know what Windows update you recently received that coincided with your trouble with Norton? If it was the fall update to 1809, that could have messed up your Norton installation. It would not be the first time that a major Windows 10 update has messed up some software installations, causing the user to have to reinstall the software. In Norton's case, running the Removal and Reinstall Tool would have been the prudent suggestion.

As for totally disabling Windows Defender. You should just leave it alone when you install a security package. During installation, the parts of Defender that can interfere with the security software will be disabled. Totally disabling Defender Services can affect/block Windows updates.

Things happen. Export/Backup your Norton Password Manager data.
Kudos0

Re: Where do I even begin

Like I said, I had an idea that it was Windows.  I was leaning towards Windows Defender.  I know that 1809 has broken practically everything and Microsoft is doing little to nothing to actually fix it.  I did not check what specific version I have installed, but I do not have 1809, I have 1803.  I did have 1809, and it broke so much stuff that I had to wipe my hard drive and reinstall everything.  Which is why I am in this predicament in the first place.  I know MS has pulled 1809 until they fix it (which I would be surprised if they actually do fix it).  That made Windows 10 no better than Windows ME, and Windows 10 is already, in my opinion, one of the worst operating systems they have ever released.  Windows ME still being the worst I have ever had to use.  That is besides the point.  I do know that since installing Norton there has been a few Windows 10 updates pushed to my computer, though not the 1809 one.  Most likely smaller ones, security fixes and whatnot, but still, I am leaning towards one of them being the issue.

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Where do I even begin

Your link for that error code is a fraudalent site

DELL XPS 8900 / I7-6700 / 64bit / 16GB RAM Win7 Pro - Norton Security
Kudos0

Re: Where do I even begin

How did you contact Norton? If you found a link via a search engine then you probably contacted a third party/scam site pretending to be Norton support.
To ensure Norton is fully removed run the clean up tool if you haven’t already & choose not to reinstall, then use Revo Uninstaller to search for Norton & Symantec leftovers.

If you believe there’s something on your PC (malware, virus etc) then try Malwarebytes & adwcleaner:
MBAM: https://www.malwarebytes.com/

Adwcleaner: https://toolslib.net/downloads/viewdownload/1-adwcleaner

Virginia/Twilight Princess. Windows 10 Pro 64bit, iPhone X, iPad Pro 9.7".
Kudos0

Re: Where do I even begin

You see that little link on the right side of you screen... the one that says "Urgent Customer Issues", then down a few lines "Chat with Norton Support"... yeah.... that is the exact link that I used to contact Norton.  So, no, I am not a moron and did a random google search and clicked on the first link that went to some obvious site that was not Norton and spoke with them.  I find it hard to believe that there is anyone dumb enough to do something like that.

Kudos0

Re: Where do I even begin

So, no, I am not a moron and did a random google search and clicked on the first link that went to some obvious site that was not Norton and spoke with them. 

No one was suggesting anything about your experience level. But until you tell us, we have no way of knowing.

I find it hard to believe that there is anyone dumb enough to do something like that.

But obviously there are many who do fall for things like this. That is why scammers are still able to make a very lucrative living. And why security software is a must for our family members that may be at risk because of their lack of knowledge/experience on the internet.

Things happen. Export/Backup your Norton Password Manager data.
Kudos0

Re: Where do I even begin

Ok, so I don't know what is specifically preventing Norton from launching. I have checked other computers used by other people in my family and none of them have this issue. Yet, two computers I use have had the exact same problem. Again, the only similarity is that at one point they both had 1809 update installed. My one computer, a desktop, is currently disassembled since what ever happened to it caused the network interfaces (it had 2) to actually become incapable of working. Even trying to reload Windows 10 was unable to find or use the network interfaces on the motherboard. So, that system is just going to be rebuilt. I already ordered parts and will be rebuilding it eventually. So, I have been using my laptop more often now and it started doing the exact same thing. I notice that after a windows update Norton suddenly is no longer showing in the task bar and when I try to launch it either nothing happens or the attached screen shot from my first post is what I get. So, is the person from Norton who attempted to install some random software from God only knows where the only support and the supposed "expert"? If so, that is a very scary thought.
Kudos0

Re: Where do I even begin

Kudos0

Re: Where do I even begin

Have you tried disabling Windows Fast Startup feature? If you use Windows 8/8.1 or 10, there can be an issue with the Windows Fast Startup feature.. See more information here.

Then try running LiveUpdate manually a few times, restarting as necessary, until no updates are available.

Things happen. Export/Backup your Norton Password Manager data.
Kudos0

Re: Where do I even begin

That link goes to a page that says it is "unavailable". Probably just has the same instructions from the guy who tried to convince me that my graphics card, McAfee, and some other unknown software was the real issue. His suggested solutions, as stated above, included trying to find and delete something that didn't exist, then running a check disk. Because check disk solves all problems apparently. Just as much as trying to use "format c:" or "rm *.* -fr" would for Windows and Linux to fix an OS issue. Especially considering that solid state drives do not have the same issues that hard disk drives do, which is what check disk is for. Now, there is no way that this guy would have known that I only have ssd's, but still, check disk only repairs bad sectors, which if that was the issue I would be having problems with more than just Norton by itself.
Kudos0

Re: Where do I even begin

How can fast boot affect Norton if the service does not start until after Windows has booted? I will give it a try, but if that "fixes" it, that isn't really a fix. That is a work around and a bandaid measure. That should not be the new default setting. That just says there is an issue that Norton and Microsoft need to work out and get fixed.
Kudos0

Re: Where do I even begin

That just says there is an issue that Norton and Microsoft need to work out and get fixed.

     It is not just Norton that has issues with Fast Startup. Any software that needs to update running system files needs to get a complete shutdown to update those files. Having said that, if you are using Restart, and not shutdown and startup again, that will get you the full shutdown required.

    You say you have multiple systems. Maybe check the ones that are not having trouble to see if Fast Startup is enabled on those. That can eliminate one more diagnostic step.

    Things happen. Export/Backup your Norton Password Manager data.
    Kudos0

    Re: Where do I even begin

    Hi @Polorboy,

    Sorry for the inconvenience caused. Link to Support article for error 8504,101 "Error: "8504,101".(https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/v62545610_End...) Please let me know if link doesn't work for you and have you tried installing Norton Security latest version 22.16.1.4? Please try installing Norton Security 22.16.1.4 version from Norton Management portal (https://my.norton.com/) and let us know if you still facing error 8504,101 when tried to open Norton program.

    Sunil_GA | Norton Forums Administrator | Symantec Corporation
    Kudos0

    Re: Where do I even begin

    Polorboy. Fast Start does not actually Shut Down your computer when enabled. It apparently is a Hybrid shutdown which is apparently a glorified Hibernate so does not actually fully shut down, clear out memory etc. I had problem with Norton shortly after getting a new computer 4 years ago, was not even aware of FastStart, nor was a computer Guru I went to. All the advice is to disable this feature as the computer will never actually fully shut down which apparently can effect various applications. 'Shut Down', I was daft enough originally, to take that wording as a full shut down, wrong.

    Kudos0

    Re: Where do I even begin

    I would say to disable fast start, because it messes with things in the long run.  To disable:

    Windows key + R and type in CONTROL hit enter, then go to Power Options > Choose what the power buttons do > Change settings that are unavailable > untick turn on fast start-up (Recommended).

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